Podcast Notes | Conversation with Sui Lianchuang: What is so special about Sui based on Move?

Compiled & edited by: Xiaobai Navigation Coderworld

In this December 28, 2023 episode of Lightspeed, Garrett, Mert, Sam, and Evan discuss Sui's origin story, the Move language, Sui's capabilities, and more. Read the notes below to learn more.

Program Background

• Garrett Harper (Host) – Lightspeed Co-Host

• Mert (Host) - CEO of Helius Labs, co-host of Lightspeed

• Sam Blackshear (Guest) - Co-founder of Sui

• Evan Cheng (Guest) - Co-founder of Sui

The Origin of Sui

• Sam said he started developing Sui in November 2021, at the peak of the last bull run. Although this seemed like a good time to start a newBlockchainsensible timing for the project, but there are other factors at play.

• He added that the decision to start the Sui project was not entirely driven by market conditions, but rather by identifying a gap in the market and seeing an opportunity for improvement.

• Sam said that Sam and Evan have been part of the Facebook Libra team since 2018. One of their responsibilities in the team is to work on building a globalBlockchainSam is responsible for the creation of the Move language, leading its design and implementation in Libra.

• Evan said that he was part of the research team that focused on various aspects of Libra's design and implementation. While researching Libra, they encountered some limitations that prompted them to explore ways to improve existing solutions.

• He added that they have developed a playbook for the next generation version of Libra, including advanced consensus mechanisms, enhanced intelligence,contractProgramming and additional cryptographic primitives. Despite their technological advances, the launch of Libra faces challenges that have nothing to do with the technology itself.

• Evan said they realized that a lot of people needed what they wanted to build, so they decided to try to create their ownBlockchainThe technical manual they developed for the next version of Libra became the basis for Sui.

• He added that his background is in building developer platforms and products, not just research. He hopes to do more than just build aBlockchain, but to create a true developer platform for the product. The right time, right place, and right people, Libra was in the final stages, which provided him with an opportunity to start his own business.

Move: A new programming paradigm

• Sam said that when he first joined the Libra project, he was not tasked with creating a new programming language. However, he was given the opportunity to explore existing options or develop a smart contract from scratch on Libra.contractfreedom.

• He added that he spent months carefully studying Solidity and the EVM before making design choices for the Move language.

• Sam 说，智能合约语言应该更像特定领域语言 (DSL)，而不是通用编程语言。这些语言专注于创建对象、传输和共享对象以及执行访问控制检查等特定任务。智能合约编程的核心抽象应该围绕这些任务，以确保Safetyand efficiency.

• He added that they decided to design a new language called Move rather than trying to adapt existing technologies such as EVM or Solidity. Move uses B code as a starting point and incorporates memorySafety,typeSafety,resourceSafetyAs well as features such as humanized handling of objects/assets. The development process includes implementing sample code for Libra and comparing it with Solidity code to evaluate their respective advantages.

• Sam said the focus is to attract developers to use Move by providing attractive incentives.cryptocurrencywalletBased on the estimated number of installations in the past (approximately 60 million), the total addressable market size is approximately 60 million. Overcoming complex key management,walletInstallation and nativeTokenBarriers such as access are critical to attracting developers.

• 他补充说，他们的目标是通过提供 ZK 登录等功能，将这些挑战转化为技术问题，无需安装wallet即可进行交易。赞助商交易可以让其他人支付交易费用，从而让开发者探索传统的收入模式。

• Evan said, web3 原生开发者推介时，重点在于语言和整个平台的优点。必须强调的是，Blockchain系统的设计应与所选语言协调一致。对于大型产品制造商来说，了解他们的具体问题并提供解决方案至关重要。

• He added that using a popular language like Rust doesn’t automatically attract an entire developer community associated with the language.CommunityRust lacks built-in functionality for basic blockchain operations like asset transfers or account management. Libraries need to be added to provide these features, so it is necessary to go beyond using the language itself.

Sui: Deep dive into technology

• Evan said that many blockchains focus heavily on the complexity of the underlying technology, requiring developers to consider a variety of scaling strategies and component choices.

• Sui aims to simplify this by providing a platform where issues such as scaling, performance, and gas stability have already been addressed.

• He added that Sui is focused on:

  • Ultra-low latency

  • Horizontal scalability

  • Emphasis on efficient solution of practical problems

• Sam said that in the blockchain system, ownership is represented using a hash table. The key in the hash table is the address, and the value represents the balance or other data.

• He added that transactions are sent by the owner, who can only perform certain actions based on the code. Different types of objects can be stored in the hash table, such as NFTs or smart contracts.

• Sam said that in Sui, global storage is represented by a set of objects with unique IDs. Metadata is embedded in the objects, including an owner field. The owner can be an address, the ID of another object, immutable (smart contract) or shared (objects accessible to multiple users). This model is different from the account-oriented model, in which ownership is represented by a hash table.

• He added that low latency is critical for use cases such as gaming or real-world transactions. In traditional EVM systems, transactions are ordered by consensus before execution. Solana introduces a fast channel using Byzantine Consistent Broadcast to execute transactions without full consensus.Xiaobai NavigationThis significantly reduces latency compared to .

• He added that Sui aims to handle a large number of transactions. Similar to Solana, the data model in the EVM system involves transactions that operate on specific objects. This allows for parallel execution and easy scheduling of tasks in the Sui system. Gas pricing and incentive mechanisms are designed to handle order contention on shared states without affecting other transactions.

• Sam said that Sui's data model enables parallel execution by specifying input objects for each transaction. The scheduler can assign tasks to appropriate cores or machines, enabling efficient parallel processing. Gas pricing and incentive mechanisms are designed to prevent order contention for shared states while maintaining the quality of service for other transactions.

• He added that Sui can provide practical finality within 25 milliseconds, providing fast confirmation for transactions. Full finality is achieved within 400 milliseconds, ensuring that all necessary processes are completed. The end-to-end latency is approximately 480 milliseconds, which is significantly better than systems that rely entirely on consensus.

• Sam said that parallel execution enables the system to process a large number of transactions at the same time. Our goal is to avoid limiting throughput based on the capacity of a single machine or validator. What we need is the ability to distribute execution across different workstations and scale elastically. It is very important to scale up by adding more machines during transaction peaks and scale down during normal traffic.

• He added that the object data model plays a critical role in achieving scalability. Native ownership information and types within objects allow for efficient organization and retrieval of data. Objects can be sorted by owner address, type, or a common combination. The flexibility to change schemes based on changing workloads helps optimize throughput and storage scalability.

• Sam said that verified reads are performed by submitting transaction results and validator signatures. Individual transactions are verified using BLS signatures instead of relying on a global Merkle account tree.

• He added that in the fast lane, there is no strong correlation between network latency and the increase in validator set size. Users broadcast transactions to validators in parallel, regardless of the number of validators. Only the BLS signature aggregation time increases with the number of validators.

• Sam said that in Narwhal consensus, the relationship between network latency and validator set size is similar to the fast path. Users broadcast transactions to validators in parallel, regardless of the number of validators.

• Sam said the long-term roadmap includes the ability to scale elastically by launching new machines. Currently, SW and Mana run on a single-machine architecture, but can take advantage of multiple cores. Workstations are treated as cores rather than individual machines. Transactions are routed to specific workers based on the type of objects they involve.

• He added that isolation can be achieved by designating specific workers to handle certain types of objects or transactions. All necessary reads and writes can be performed on the same machine, reducing cross-machine communication. The scalability of the system depends on successful isolation and efficient resource allocation.

Validator Requirements

• Sam said there are currently about 100 validators in the network. Validators can apply for a stake in the Sui Foundation, which helps achieve geographic distribution and data center diversity.

• He added that as time goes on and more people gain access to their own funding, they can start new validators and compete with existing validators. The size of the validator set is not the ultimate measure of decentralization; instead, the focus is on cost-effectiveness for users.

• He added that the main measure of decentralization is the cost for users to replicate transactions that affect their state. Spike uses an object data model to implement "sparse nodes" so that users only need to efficiently verify transactions that touch their objects.

• Sam said that as transaction volumes increase, running a full node or validator becomes impractical for the average user. By collectively tracking changes to objects, users can ensure that validators adhere to the protocol.

Optimistic VS Pessimistic Parallel execution

• Sam said Sui supports both static and dynamic techniques for parallel execution. Static information helps with initial parallelization, but dynamic conflict detection can be added when needed. To provide a parallelizable workload, incentives must be put in place.

• He added that detecting conflicts at the static level can prioritize or de-prioritize transactions based on the conflicting circumstances. It is expected that the system will continue to evolve in the future as more static information and advanced technologies become available.

State growth and storage

• Sam said that the main reason for the slow performance of the EVM and the low number of transactions per second (TPS) is the measures taken to prevent state growth. Our goal is to allow state growth while avoiding the use of giant Merkle trees or other global authentication data structures.

• He added that traditional databases can be used for storage, which can be easily expanded by configuring more disks or upgrading hardware. Since the storage cost is much lower than traditional solutions such as SAL, there is no problem of state growth. NFT compression is currently being discussed as a means of reducing storage costs, but overall, state growth is controllable.

• Sam said that in Sui, the account/object database is stored on the node for transaction processing. However, the historical transaction log requires a separate archive storage to facilitate synchronization of the entire node or historical analysis. Archive nodes maintained by organizations such as the Sweet Foundation and Miss ensure the availability of long-term storage.

• He added that Solana has faced similar challenges and the company has long implemented various solutions, including using Google and RWE for archive storage.

• Sam said that checkpoints are used as an audit mechanism to commit previous checkpoints to form a sequence. An epoch occurs every 24 hours and summarizes the checkpoints in it. Each checkpoint commits the transactions in it to ensure data integrity.

• He added that validator set changes and stake state weight changes are also signed and reflected in the checkpoints. To verify old data, you can start from genesis, follow the changes in the validator set until you find the data you need, check the signature, and check the transaction.

• Sam said that about 19% transactions in Sui use the fast path. Fast channel transactions involve simple transfers, such as sending USDC to another account. Interactions with smart contracts such as Uniswap on Ethereum are not fast channel transactions because they involve multiple parties.

Move 的安全优势

• Sam said that Move's security is not entirely based on the fact that there have been no hacking incidents to date. No smart contract language can prevent programmers from writing unsafe code.

• He added that Move solves problems with existing languages such as reentrancy, dynamic dispatch, ownership checking, and object serialization. Move aims to eliminate these problems and provide a safer environment for developers.

• Sam said that the key value proposition of Move is its typed objects and type safety. Type safety applies not only inside the program, but also when interacting with external code or untrusted sources.

• He added that integrating Move into other systems may require consideration of account-based systems, interactions between Move and non-Move programs, and running validators to ensure security guarantees.

• Sam said that integrating Move into other ecosystems may require solving account-based systems and interactions between mobile and non-mobile programs. Adding a compiler may be risky, but Move's key value proposition is its typed objects and type safety.

• Evan said that to fully realize the security benefits of Move, all smart contracts in the system must use Move consistently. When all contracts are written in Move, you can run validators and ensure strong assumptions about the code and objects. He made an analogy with early technologies, using abstraction technology can reduce errors compared to manual coding.

• He added that blockchain alone is not enough, it needs to be compatible with different languages to replicate the same stack. Replicating the entire stack is essential to gain all the benefits of blockchain technology.

Economic security

• Sam said that economic security is assessed based on how much stake a person needs to acquire to cause an undesirable outcome in the system. New systems starting from scratch implement equity subsidies to ensure that there is enough equity at the outset.

• He added that currently, among about 10 billionTokenThere are approximately 8 billion staked out of the total supply, which indicates good economic security.

• Evan said that economic security attacks on blockchains are rare, especially in the early stages when the ecosystem’s growth makes such attacks costly.

• Sam said that while economic security is an important aspect, social consensus is the ultimate protection against attacks that could damage a network's reputation.

Atomic composability, scalability, and validator sustainability

• Sam said that the utility of a smart contract platform can be measured by the multiplication of the valuable assets on the platform and the programmability of those assets. Atomic composability plays a vital role in programmability, allowing developers to access all assets and build applications without worrying about implementation details or different latencies. Our vision is to put everything of value in one place, providing a programming model that allows barrier-free and automatic access to all assets. Splitting state across multiple layers or subchains may create user experience issues, but this is seen as an acceptable trade-off to achieve Atomic composability.

• He added,cryptocurrencyThe future vision is to have different types of Rollups, just like there are new websites for different purposes. Atomic composability is considered critical to blockchain because it allows easy access to all valuable assets and facilitates seamless interaction between users and applications. It eliminates the need for users to understand the implementation details or security model differences of each asset.

• Sam said that expanding the first layer to accommodate all situations with the same layer is critical to expanding use cases. If there are bottlenecks that require split state or degrade the user experience, it may be necessary to explore alternative solutions.

• He added that pushing the limits of technology determines the scale and impact of the first layer. Before considering sharding or bridging, it is beneficial to improve throughput and scalability at the bottom layer.

• Sam said that building a network with a large user base and consumer-grade experience may require higher hardware requirements.CommunityEach must decide the value of accessibility versus lowering the barrier to entry to running a node.

• Evan said that Ethereum’s user experience is not seamless for consumer applications due to scalability limitations. Compared to Ethereum, staking on newer chains such as Solana is relatively simple.

• He added that the role of service providers in running nodes raises questions about centralization. It is controversial how to determine the true percentage of native coins, and whether a service counts as a single validator or multiple validators.

• Balancing hardware requirements, accessibility, and sustainability is an ongoing challenge, Evan said. The pace of hardware advancement relative to blockchain needs can impact long-term sustainability.

• He added that there are few blockchain solutions available to consumers. Being limited to solutions that are not consumer-friendly would hinder the realization of potential value.

• Sam said that decentralization does not mean that anyone can run their own node. This is not realistic. The cost of operating a node may be higher than the income from staking rewards or transaction fees. When evaluating the value of running a node, other factors need to be considered, such as the income from running a node and getting faster read speeds through RPC providers.

• He added that running a node can bring benefits beyond direct financial gain, such as offsetting costs through other sources of income. Nodes can also act as RPC providers, providing users with faster read speeds. Some people operate nodes for security reasons or as a side job, which further promotes the development of the ecosystem.

Sui’s beachhead: Gaming and commerce

• Evan said that the gaming industry is known for trying new business models and technologies, so it is an interesting area to explore. The ability of blockchain to handle assets is very suitable for the needs of the gaming industry. Almost all businesses involving consumer products can benefit from blockchain technology.

• He added that the core value of blockchain lies in its ability to facilitate asset-related activities in commerce. Commerce encompasses a variety of activities, including payments, asset exchange and betting. Gaming is an initial use case to introduce blockchain technology to the public.

Sui compares Aptos and looks to the future

• Sam said the focus should be on how developers can reach the widest possible audience. There are many benefits to developing blockchain technology based on Sui, such as providing ZK login for users without wallets and sponsorship transactions that can be monetized without tokens.

• He added that features offered by Aptos include royalty enforcement on digital objects and closed-loop tokens with restricted use.

• Evan said that the features included in the protocol make it easier for developers because they don't have to rely on centralized service providers or pay monthly fees. Ethereum allows for a more free market approach where developers have to opt in to certain features, which may not be supported everywhere. Having key features written into the protocol is very important for product builders to reduce competition for basic features.

• Evan said that Ethereum faces challenges in adopting new standards because high gas fees cause some functions to be squeezed out of the chain or inefficient. In contrast, Sui aims to incorporate key functions directly into its native protocol, making them easily accessible without relying on external services. Social consensus plays a vital role in the process of adopting new standards, and getting everyone to reach consensus is challenging.

The article comes from the Internet:Podcast Notes | Conversation with Sui Lianchuang: What is so special about Sui based on Move?

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